When did you first encounter the image of James Earle Fraser's End of the Trail? Do you remember how or what you felt about it then?

The first time I encountered the image of James Earle Fraser’s End of the Trail, I think it was just traversing the landscape of Southern Utah as a kid and you see this image. It exists everywhere, not unlike something like the Kokopelli, I don’t know that I had an understanding of how I felt about it back then because there was no context to growing up, there was very little representation of Indigenous people and at least representation was good. It always seemed depressing to me, it’s a depressing image and but I’m also coming out of the generation where this idea of Indigenous people being vanishing or the demise of our people is significant, so it all tracks within that perception.

Has your understanding or perception of it changed over time? If so, how or why?

My understanding and perception of End of the Trail has changed with education and understanding. Particularly through the efforts of Indigenous liberation and Indigenous efforts around representation. A lot of this came to a head with James Luna’s work, and his version of End of the Trail, where he’s sitting on a saw horse, and I think he’s holding a mop handle if I remember correctly. It’s dealing with perpetuating the idea of defeat and vanishing. I think End of the Trail perpetuates this myth that we are a broken people, that no longer exist. And certainly don’t exist in the way that we as Native people believe that we exist. My perception of the work has changed particularly in the context of American perception of these things, that in order to justify or even validate the existence of settler colonialism, and the white supremacy that is behind it, there has to be a note to the demise, or “defeat” of Indigenous people. And this piece represents that perception and that representation in my mind.

As an artist, you often work with the figural. What compositional impression does End of the Trail make on you?

I think when it comes to figure work and when you’re looking at portraits, whether that be in painting or sculpture, three dimensional or two dimensional. I think that the body language of the figure is incredibly important and this piece in particular, leaves a pretty big impression on what is being said sort of overall, it’s interesting to me that a piece like this can somehow represent all Indigenous people. But as I’ve said previously, this piece is really representing the perception of Indigenous existence through colonial eyes, and so this body language of depression and defeat and upset and exhaustion, all feed into the ideas of our existence as it is dictated by those that are in power or wish or believe themselves to be in power.

What are your thoughts about the impact of this image today?

My personal thought on the piece End of the Trail, is that it needs to go by the wayside, along with statues of Confederate generals and soldiers. It represents a lost time, a lost understanding of Indigenous existence that perpetuates the idea that our existence is no longer there. That we don’t fit within the realm of what that perception is supposed to be. That we are supposed to no longer exist or if we do exist, that we do need to be steeped in buckskin and beadwork and with high cheek bones and broad noses and reddish-brown skin. All of these things are stereotypes that feed into the historical erasure of Indigenous people. In this piece, in my opinion, embodies all of those things, in one single piece, one single image. I think it is problematic and I think it perpetuates the idea that not only are we less than, not only are we defeated but that we are no longer in existence. That we belong in a narrative in which we are erased off the face of the Earth in the name of so called ‘progress’ and colonial powership.